Debut Author Interviews

Ruth McNally Barshaw is the author of Ellie McDoodle: Have Pen, Will Travel (Bloomsbury US, Spring 2007)

• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Dream Editors
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Writing Process
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...First Novels
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Family Appreciation
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Completion
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Critique Groups
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...The Call
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Audience
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Surprises
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Writing Schedule
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Other Careers
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...After-Sale Revisions
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Agents
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Prior Research
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Promotion
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Ideas
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Training
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Why Kids?
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Setting
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Celebrations
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Query Letters
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Influential Books
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Ideal Reader
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Character and Self
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...What's Next?
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Outlines
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Outlines
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Impact on Readers
• Ruth McNally Bradshaw on...Favorite Teacher
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Website
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Cover Art
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Character's Conflict
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Taste in Books
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Actor for Character
• Ruth McNally Barshaw on...Favorite Bookstore

How did you choose your editor and was he or she the “dream editor” you wanted?

My editor is the dream editor I didn’t know existed. She affirms me, she supports and defends me. I adore her. She’s brilliant and fun and warm and insightful. I can’t imagine a better editor.

My agent chose her — she pitched the book to Victoria Wells Arms at Bloomsbury, and Victoria was out of the office for a while and liked the sound of my book, and suggested we pitch it to Melanie Cecka at Bloomsbury. We did, and Melanie loved it, and bought it.

I’ve become a big fan of Melanie Cecka.

What is your writing process?

First comes a feel for the plot or the main character.

I start with page 1, with text and art, and revise as I write.

Sometimes I plot out the book with index cards, sometimes a major plot point will be a big question mark until I get to it, and sometimes I change plot points as I come to them.
I write while in character — I imagine scenes that would fit the character and pick the most likely dialogue and action.

Sometimes I cry when I put the character through a rough time, because I relate so strongly to who that person is. I hate seeing people in pain. And it’s hard knowing I caused them the pain, even if they’re just book characters. But there’s a happy ending to look forward to.

Was this the first full-length novel you wrote, or rather the first that you sold?

My first novel to sell is also the first novel I ever attempted (aside from a 3-page thing when I was 12 years old).

I knew very little about writing novels, and was concentrating on creating picturebooks. Writer friends saw my sketchbook journal online and urged me to try writing a kids’ book in that style, instead, so I did.

It took 5 weeks to write Ellie McDoodle, and I was shocked that not only I loved it, but others did too. Finally I felt my art and writing were in sync with what the universe was looking for.

Now that you’re under contract, does your family better appreciate your writing?

My family is now 100% supportive.

They weren’t always.

Contracts, advance payments, and correspondence with big-time industry professionals all have a way of convincing people that I’m finally legit.

(though I still can’t get my kids to read my book. They want to wait til it hits the bookstores)

How did you know you were “done” with your book and ready to submit it?

An agent asked to see ELLIE McDOODLE before it was finished, and told me she’d be out of town for two weeks. I sent whatever I had, when she came back.
I think it was about 54 pages of graphic novel-ish manuscript and art, posted to a secret website.
I didn’t even have an ending yet, just a rough outline of where the book was going.

She loved it and emailed it out to a publisher before even formally signing with me.
As she was sending it, I was frantically finishing the book and uploading new pages so that when an editor finally had time to look at it, the book was done.

I expected to be told to make revisions, but that came much later.

The way I know a manuscript is “done” is when nothing bothers me about it anymore. All the niggling little issues are handled, and it’s the best I can do.

Do you belong to a writing group?

I just joined a critique group!

I’m so excited about it. I wrote ELLIE McDOODLE without a critique group. It was a very lonely and unsure process. Two months ago a local group invited me to join, just in time for ELLIE revisions.

My editor wanted a more climactic Lost in the Woods scene. The new crit group gave me lots of new ideas to use in that scene, to build tension and make it feel scarier, and actually the editor said it became *too* scary. So she and I cut out a few elements and the scene works great now.

The critique group consists of about 7 or 8 members, all brilliant, and they bring all sorts of backgrounds - science, teaching, bookstores… It’s very valuable and I’m thrilled to be a member.

What happened when you received ‘The Call’ that your book would be published?

I knew the call would probably come soon. My agent, Erin, had emailed that Bloomsbury liked the book a lot.

When Erin called, I was giddy just to hear her. I knew this would be good news.

When she told me, I fell back on the bed, trying to comprehend it all, and revelling in all it would mean for us.

Selling the book meant validation of my writing, to my family. It meant climbing out of the financial hole we were stuck in. It meant a whole new life. I was thrilled.

Erin told me what the advance would be, and I said I would have settled for less, and she said, “That’s why you have an agent,” and I laughed so hard.

Later I sketched that moment and sent her the cartoon, which she appreciated.

I told my family and closest friends first. Some of them are writers and know just what it means to sell your first book.

I am on the advisory committee for our regional SCBWI, and at the next meeting they brought out champagne glasses and toasted my book.

And I told everyone at my mom’s 70th birthday party that weekend that the contract was coming soon.

It was magical. Every part of it.

Who is the target audience for your book?

My book, ELLIE McDOODLE: HAVE PEN, WILL TRAVEL, is particularly aimed at kids, 8 to 12 years old.

I want everyone in the world to read it, though. :)

What has surprised you the most so far?

- The hurry-up-and-wait nature of publishing. Time works differently in publishing than in the rest of the world.

- The money. I kept reading you can’t make a living doing kids’ books. I think they’re wrong.

- The attitude of my editor. I’d read that authors sacrifice their vision to get published, and each book becomes a team effort. My editor doesn’t seem to subscribe to that thinking at all.

- How I got published. I worked so hard for so long doing what I thought the market wanted. But what finally worked is what I have been doing for fun since I was a young teen. Who’d have thought?

What is your writing schedule?

I do some sort of writing, illustrating or self-promotion work probably every day of the year.
And my ‘play’ looks conspicuously like my ‘work.’ I guess I’m on the job, 24/7.

I have four kids and I have to work around their schedules, which sometimes isn’t easy.
Too often I stay up late working on something, and have to get up a few hours later and be functional for something for one of the kids.

The schools are used to seeing me bleary-eyed and goofy-haired for morning events. Often I wear a silly hat to hide the hair.

Because of my background in advertising, I am deadline driven. The revisions process for ELLIE McDOODLE reminded me that I don’t mind working 16-hour days to meet important deadlines, if I love the work. And I love this work! :)

What career would you pursue if you weren’t a writer?

I always wanted to write and illustrate in a cartoony style for a big audience.

I didn’t realize I could make a living at doing kids’ books, so I went into advertising, using my design, copywriting, and illustration skills. I did that for 25+ years, ever since my first year of college.

I always figured if I couldn’t draw or write I would go into embryology or law.
But this is what I love most.

I figured it out when I was working on a kids’ cookbook for a local hospital’s centennial. I was doing it almost for free (very low honorarium), yet I couldn’t wait to get to it in the morning, and couldn’t put it down at night. That’s how I knew kids’ books was the right path for me.

How much revision did you do AFTER you sold your book to your publisher?

When I sent my book, ELLIE MCDOODLE, to my soon-to-be agent, I expected many revisions requests, but she sent it out as it was.
A few months later the contract came from Bloomsbury, I signed it, it mentioned revisions, the revisions didn’t come for many months… I thought maybe I would get away with no revisions. Silly me.

A few months later I met in person with Bloomsbury staff, and they gave me a 3-page letter of requests for revisions which scared me.
Most were things like, add more of these, do more of that.
Also: Consider taking out one character, consider making this scene more climactic, consider adding to the last page. Maybe change the girl’s hair. Add 50 - 70 pages.

I’d been reading Donald Maas’s WRITING THE BREAKOUT NOVEL WORKBOOK (not the main book), and congratulating myself on what I’d already done right, and adding a few things suggested by Maas.
I had a ton of new ideas to use, too, from thinking over the past year.

With the first rewrite came my chance.
It took about 2 - 3 weeks to put it all together (art and text - my book’s a graphic novel) and submit the revision to my editor.
She loved it and a couple weeks later sent back a smaller list of ideas for revisions:
Consider making this kid the main character’s brother rather than cousin. Take out this character. Change this word, that word, add this phrase, move this to that page, move that to this page…

I made those changes in a couple weeks and sent her round 2 which she sent straight to the typesetters, and now I am working with the Art Director to figure out exact placement of text and art. This will take another few weeks, and then I think the book is done.

Total production time for the revised art and text: About 3 to 5 weeks, stretched over about 9 weeks of time. I loved the work. It was fun. And I know it made for an even stronger book, because now they’re mentioning sequels. ;)

Is an agent useful or necessary for a first-time author?

I think having an agent is useful but not necessary for selling kids’ books in today’s climate.

I didn’t seek out an agent. I thought no agent would want me until I had a bunch of proven sales. But I was wrong about that. She found me.

And boy, do I adore her. I’m grateful for her support and finesse.
I know my book would have sold without her.
But I know it wouldn’t have sold so quickly and the experience wouldn’t have been so sweet for me.

Having an agent gave me boatloads of confidence where I had none before.
In those tough days while waiting to hear back from the editor, I kept telling myself, the agent loves the book, the agent is very smart and she knows the market, she wouldn’t have signed with me if she didn’t think it would sell, thererfore the book will sell and only needs to find the right editor, first.

I grew up with a huge inferiority complex.
I was the most insecure person I knew, unworthy of anything good.
Impressing a smart agent with my work did more for me than eons of therapy could ever achieve.

How much research and/or meditation about your subject did you do before you began your first draft?

ELLIE MCDOODLE started as a short story, for an undetermined audience, about my childhood memories at National Guard camp with my dad and my huge family.
I read it at an SCBWI peer group critique session and some people immediately pegged it as a middle grade story and hilarious — news to me!
But I was working on picturebooks, so I shelved the story.

Three years later some writer friends suggested I try creating a kids’ book in my trademark sketchbook style, so I pulled out the camp story and reworked it to fit into a graphic novel style book.

It took 5 weeks to recompose into a kids’ book and almost no research, but it does have a science component (much of it culled from nature field trips with my kids’ classrooms).
My agent loves it, my editor loves it; I’m deliriously happy.

What is your plan to get the word out to the public about your book?

I’m going to thicken my skin and think creatively and explore every avenue I can.
Luckily my publisher has a top notch publicity department, so I don’t need to hire anyone to help. All of the things I had on my “To Do” list, they’re already doing.

So — I’ll exploit the local angle. I’ll continue to push myself to meet librarians, teachers, booksellers, and reviewers.
I’ll ask all my family and friends to buy my book and recommend it to their friends if they like it.
I won’t obsess over bad reviews.
I’ll visit schools, bookstores and libraries.
I’m going to kiss the babies, be diplomatic to politicians, and shake a lot of hands…
And I am going to keep working steadily on the next books, because I don’t want to be a one-hit wonder.

Where did you get the idea for your book?

My book is a sketch journal by an 11 year old girl who goes camping with relatives she dislikes.

The idea to do a book in that style came from fellow writers: When I returned home from my first big national SCBWI conference in NYC in February, 2005, with a sketchbook full of what happened in NYC, I put it all on my website. (http://ruthexpress.com)
Fellow writers saw it and urged me to do a kids’ book in that style. I didn’t think it would sell, but they insisted I try. So I did. A week later an agent contacted me.

The idea for the book came from my childhood. I camped often with my huge family.
The characters are all me and most are also my relatives. I refuse to get more specific on the grounds it may incriminate me. :)

What writing training have you had?

I loved writing in high school and was very good at it, and at drawing.
I was an Advertising major in college.
I worked in advertising/promotions for 17 years doing illustration, design, copywriting, some reporting and editing.

After that I freelanced doing illustration and design.

Ten years ago I won 6 national essay contests (5 grand prizes, one state prize) for Kudos/M&M Mars, Suave, American Library Association, Land O Lakes, Stouffers, and Robitussin.
Prizes totalled more than $70,000. I am, among other titles, America’s Most Harried Home Cook, Family Manager of the Year (retired), Working Mother of the Year (retired) and Dr. Mom (also retired). (The retired ones are annual awards)

When I decided to write children’s books, I took two online classes with Anastasia Suen: Easy Readers and Story Design.
I’d already sold my book before taking the Story Design one.

I’ve read a lot of books. Tons of books. Mostly picture books — I had no idea I had a novel in me until I started writing this book last year. Weird how things work out……

I think advertising copywriting and editing might be the very best training for writing kids’ books.
You have to be brief and to the point, and you have to hook the reader.
Word sounds matter, as do word images.

Why write for children and teens?

I write for kids instead of for adults because
- it’s more challenging
- it’s more interesting to me
- my best stories are about kids
- I have 4 kids and want to entertain them and their friends
- it’s a noble business that I understand and appreciate

Where is your novel set, and why there?

Ellie McDoodle: Have Pen, Will Travel is about a girl who goes camping with relatives she can’t stand, and she keeps a sketch diary of her adventures.
It’s set in northern Michigan because
1) I camped there every summer as a kid,
2) it’s a beautiful and entertaining area that deserves a spotlight, and
3) I haven’t read many fiction books set in Michigan.

How did you celebrate your book sale?

When I got the call from the agent that she wanted to represent me, I celebrated with Oreos that a writer-illustrator friend sent. (Thank you Amy M!)

When I got the email that Bloomsbury was making an offer, soon, I told everyone at my mom’s birthday party that weekend. I’d been the black sheep of the family for few years (not my fault!) and was anxious to disprove them. So I blurted the information even though I didn’t have any details yet.

Our SCBWI region’s Advisory Committee (AdCom) was meeting that weekend too. I told a few members about the impending sale via email, and when I arrived at the meeting they surprised me with champagne in real crystal to toast my book.
It was one of my best moments as a writer. I still get teary eyed thinking about it.

Describe the query letter that got you published.

I didn’t write a query for my novel.

I’d just returned from the big SCBWI conference in NYC, in Feb 2005 with dismal hopes for when I would ever be published, but also with an excellent sketchbook of all the action at the conference.

I put the 150 page sketchbook online and emailed the link to some writer groups.
Hundreds of emails poured in, many urging me to write a kids’ book in that style. So I said I would.
A few days later an agent emailed me, saying she was interested in seeing the book when it was ready.
Two weeks later I sent her the link to the first 54 pages of the book, all online and easy to access.

She loved it and we started working together.
Hope springs eternal.

What books had an impact on you when you were growing up?

Ramona the Pest, Henry Huggins, Ellen Tebbits, Henry and Beezus, etc., anything by Beverly Cleary – I fell in love with her characters and their worlds. I could totally relate.

The Key To The Treasure by Peggy Parish – this story absolutely enthralled me.

The Five Chinese Brothers by Claire Huchet Bishop, illus. by Kurt Wiese—hilarious illustrations I adored.

I was a voracious reader.
In fourth grade my teacher read many classics aloud in class: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Charlotte’s Web, James and the Giant Peach, From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler, Harriet the Spy, and others.
What a wonderful teacher she was. She opened my world.

If you had an ideal reader, who would that be and why?

My ideal reader has an excellent sense of humor.

Maybe my ideal reader also likes to spy on people and nature, and is curious about things and has an appreciation for fairness.
Irony is good, too.

My ideal reader likes to read my book and recommend it to friends. : )

Is your main character like yourself?

Many people, including my agent and editor, have declared that Ellie McDoodle is me.
I don’t mind the comparison at all.
Ellie’s got a lot of great qualities. : )
There’s a lot of me in her (including faults).
Actually, each of my characters has stolen a bit of my personality.
I’m lovable, hateful, nice, mean, forgiving, spiteful, bold, timid, entertaining and boring…

What’s next after your debut novel?

What’s next? More books!
Ellie McDoodle was so much fun to write and I have lots more stories to tell. How can I resist?
The first time my editor mentioned more books I was elated. I think I didn’t sleep for a week.
Six months later, the insomnia has worn off, but the thrill hasn’t.

Do you outline before writing?

I figure out the plot points in a sort of modified outline on index cards, then write and draw (at the same time) to fit the road map.
Sometimes I get to a point where I had been sure the story would go in a certain direction next, but find that it’s better for the story to go in a different direction instead, because of how the character is speaking to me.

For this first book I only had half of the book figured out when I started writing. I just trusted the ideas would come at the right time, and they did.

Do you outline before writing?

I figure out the plot points in a sort of modified outline on index cards, then write and draw (at the same time) to fit the road map.
Sometimes I get to a point where I had been sure the story would go in a certain direction next, but find that it’s better for the story to go in a different direction instead, because of how the character is speaking to me.

For this first book I only had half of the book figured out when I started writing. I just trusted the ideas would come at the right time, and they did.

What should readers get from your book?

From Ellie McDoodle: Have Pen, Will Travel, I hope readers take away
a sense of fun,
knowledge of a few new games,
some facts about nature,
and the realization that even a very antagonistic situation can work out well.

My website, http://ruthexpress.com, will help reinforce those points with
freebies and more fun.

Describe your favorite teacher when you were your protagonist’s age.

I had some really outstanding teachers all the way through school.
My character, Ellie McDoodle, is almost 12 and it’s summer. So that puts her between 5th and 6th grade.

My 6th grade teacher was Mr. Wallace, a very cool guy. We had long discussions with the whole class. I loved that. He taught me how to research my answers for debates. And we played some fun learning games in his class.

Special mention goes to my 4th grade teachers:
Mrs. Rogowski, who unfortunately had to leave halfway through the year, and her replacement, Miss Shortreed, who became Mrs. Marx later. I adored both.

Miss Shortreed read our class many books. Charlotte’s Web, James and the Giant Peach, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler, Harriet the Spy, The Mouse and the Motorcycle, many others. I think this is when I first decided I wanted to draw for a living.

In Junior High and High School I had lots of excellent teachers.

Good teachers are heroes.

Do you have a website for your book? How did you handle setting it up?

I created my first website for my art and writing ten years ago.
It’s a work in progress and I tweak it constantly.

Here’s what I have so far, besides my art and info about the ELLIE McDOODLE book:
- a sketchblog of adventures with my 9 year old daughter (my book’s Ellie is 11)
- free downloads with more coming soon
- a Famous Authors Series — sketches of 33+ famous authors doing school visits.
- sketchbooks of my trips to the SCBWI National Conferences in NYC
- frequently-asked questions by kids and advice for other writers
- school visit information

Coming soon: A teacher’s guide and reviews
Here’s my website: http://ruthexpress.com

Did the art director read your entire book to get inspiration for the cover?

I did the ELLIE McDOODLE cover art (and the inside art too).
I worked with my editor and art director to figure out the design and illustration for the cover.
We did it as a team.

Since my book is heavily illustrated — illustrations tell half the story — it would be funny if the AD never read the book.
I love the Art Director at Bloomsbury. She’s fabulous. I can’t say enough great things about the staff at Bloomsbury.
I feel very lucky to have landed in their group.

(My sympathy to authors who feel their cover is disconnected from the text; I hear that horror story occasionally in various other writer groups)

What drew you to the conflict you created for your main character?

My main character is Ellie McDoodle.
She travels with relatives she can’t stand, and she keeps a sketch journal of it all.
The idea for the conflict came from my own family. I have 8 brothers and sisters.
And a zillion cousins, aunts, uncles and inlaws.
Ellie is me.
(But of course I adore all my relatives)

Do you have different taste in kids’ books as an adult writer than as a kid?

No.
Actually, I keep seeking out books that enthralled me when I was a kid, and I find they’re still well-written.
I read aloud to my fourth grader most nights. We’ve been through many of the classic tween books together (Peggy Parish, Beverly Cleary, Madeline L’Engle), and we’ve also read some newer ones (just finished Because of Winn-Dixie, Tale of Despereaux and Princess Academy). We have a few thousand books here. I’m so glad all my kids love books as much as I do.

I have to say, the book I most enjoyed reading aloud to my daughter was my own, Ellie McDoodle, in ARC form. She laughed in all the right places. This of course makes me want to spoil her rotten. ; )

Who would play your book character in a movie?

I thought Dakota Fanning would make a perfect Ellie McDoodle since she’s a really good actress.
It’d be easy to add freckles and eyeglasses to her face.
On the other hand, my book is a cartoony graphic novel. So maybe the movie would be animated, and Dakota would only do the voice.

On the third hand, my 9 year old daughter Emily just volunteered to play Ellie in a movie.
So it looks like we have a range to choose from. : )

Do you have a favorite bookstore?

A few years ago East Lansing, Michigan, had more bookstores per capita than any city in the country.
I live in Lansing, just a jump from E.L.
I don’t know if E.L. still holds the title, but there sure are a lot of bookstores to choose from.
My writing group meets at Schulers. I love the local Barnes & Noble stores and can never pass by a Borders without going in.
I adore Pooh’s Corner in Grand Rapids and Halfway Down the Stairs in Rochester and Nicola’s in Ann Arbor.
There are two wonderful bookstores in Williamston (or is it Webberville) and Mason which I haven’t visited yet.
The Flying Pig in Vermont is owned by a dear friend.

I love bookstores. Only art stores and computer stores hold as much magic, for me.
So, no single favorite. Just lots of great stores that, when I walk in the door, feel like home.